News Report / Profile
Maria do Carmo Fonseca – The Woman Behind the Wheel
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The books on the History of Portugal taught us about the bravery of the Portuguese people, who decided to sail across the sea and open our little world to the whole world. Six centuries later, the Portuguese decided once again to show their will to conquer what no one else had even imagined. The new discoveries are now related to Science. And the explorers live among us and may be featured in the next text books.
Her name is Maria do Carmo and she was the face of Science on a campaign from the Tourism of Portugal, in 2007, that intended to show that Portugal has the best of the best in each area. The posters featuring her face were all over Porto and Lisbon and were placed next to the ones featuring Mourinho, Ronaldo, Joana Vasconcelos or Mariza, to show that the South owes its reputation to these prominent personalities.
She had just been awarded the Gulbenkian Science Award and thus became one of the faces of the country, but that was just a small part of what she has achieved and that turned her into one of the most famous researchers and a mentor sought by many of those who wish to find their own way.
She always acted on her own will and never followed the rules of others. She chose the field of Medicine not because her father told her to, but because he provided her with certain professional arguments. Maria do Carmo completed her degree with the best grade that year, but she decided she would not become a doctor. She made a pact with scientific research instead and that turned out to be a long-term relationship, as she refined her knowledge in the field of Molecular Biology. The genetic code became her expertise, even though she knows that she always has a lot more to learn. She currently teaches Cell Biology to first-year students and Oncobiology to third-year students. Her students choose her as the best teacher due to her demanding standards.
She has been awarded the Comenda Ordem de Sant’iago de Espada Career Award (2001), the Pessoa Award (2010), the Femina Award for Science Merit (2011), the Gold Medal at the Ministry of Health (2012) and the D. Antónia Ferreira Award for female entrepreneurs (2013), and she still refers that having founded the iMM is the best scientific reward she could have received. As President of the iMM, she emphasizes that there is where her legacy remains.
She has recently conducted, together with Bruno de Jesus, a research in her laboratory, that resulted in the discovery of a ribonucleic acid (RNA) molecule, which is truly unique and, when manipulated, not only interrupts the ageing process, but also makes old cells behave like young ones. The consequence of this step is that ageing is reversible.
A disciplined and methodical woman, she constantly challenges herself in the field of sports, which forces her to overcome inertia, she says. She plans her future in detail and thinks about what her life will be like once she retires, but she does not intend to stand still. She did not want to have kids, however, she welcomes and protects the researchers that insist on following her steps. She believes solitude will be a part of her life, as a consequence of her personal choices, and accompanies her in every decision she has to make.
Whoever meets her for the first time may confuse her shyness and restrained personality with distance and coolness, but from the moment we find ourselves face-to-face with her, we forget that she is a 59-year old woman, because she looks like a little girl with sparkling eyes whenever she talks about her passions.
Before meeting her, people told me to ask her objective and accurate questions and I realized that the underlying message was "Joana, do not go there and talk about love", however there was nothing but love and passion in Professor Maria do Carmo Fonseca's words when I asked her to tell me about her path.
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I decided not to follow an exact timeline during my conversation with the Professor... The first topic had to be the role played by women in our society. On a previous interview, you mentioned that there not many women in managing positions because they often choose to take on the role of mother. And that does not make less of them, it is just a choice they made. You have clearly decided to become a leader.
Becoming a mother was never on the table, because my greatest passions are science and teaching. One cannot live without the other. It would be extremely difficult for me to stop teaching or to just teach. The combination of both is what makes sense to me. Teaching is not about rattling off what has been written on a book, it is about interpreting knowledge. That's exactly what makes the research experience and understanding the scientific process so important. This is my greatest passion. I could never be a good mother, unless I had a lot of help. That would require a lot of my time and when you wish to be on the front line of Science, you must put many hours into it. You don't have time for anything else. I have been witnessing and sharing experiences with many women, who have made their own choices and I don't know a single one that regrets having dedicated more time to their family life. People are free to make their choices. It is a fact that most women have a physiological aptitude for choosing the "taking care of the family" component.
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Is it a question of biology?
There is, indeed, a biological explanation. The gene expression in a female and male environment is different. The signals that are emitted are different. Being equal does not make sense from a biological perspective, we should have access to the same opportunities, but it is scientifically proven that female and male brains think differently.
I completed my postdoctoral studies in Heidelberg (German city), at the European Molecular Biology Laboratory (EMBL). During the time I lived in Germany, I found that there is a lot of pressure in the German society for women to stay at home when they have children. Did you know that Germany is one of the countries with fewer women in senior positions in the universities? Most German women start working part-time when they have children. This type of scheme is obviously incompatible with professional leadership careers. I know a young Portuguese scientist, who is working in Germany and is a mom. She chose to live in Berlin, because there kindergardens are open all afternoon. In other cities, it is common for children to spend the afternoon at home, with their mothers.
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You’ve always faced difficulties as challenges to become even better and more creative, and said that it is at that point that Science reinvents itself.
I have been faced with many challenges during my entire life. The first one was choosing my degree. I was in love with Science, but I did not know which area I should pursue. I chose Medicine because of my father's influence, as he gave me excellent arguments about career opportunities. When I got into Medicine, I quickly began to have access to the laboratory and met a great scientist, David Ferreira, whose research laboratory was at Gulbenkian. At that time, the Faculty did not have the necessary conditions for research. When faced with the reality of the laboratory, I said "Wow, this is what I want to do for the rest of my life" [her eyes sparkle]. As the time went by and as I was getting closer to my PhD, I wanted more, because the laboratory was not enough for me. I had to go abroad and see how the laboratories worked out there. Right after completing my PhD, I went abroad (Heidelberg). Then, the next challenge consisted on me knowing if I would be able to be a group leader, that is, to stop having a mentor at the laboratory and being a mentor to other students myself. It was during this great challenge that I decided to come back to Portugal. It was a double challenge, being a group leader and being independent, in Portugal. At that time, the country was beginning to provide the necessary financing conditions, which was good.
And then came another challenge, that had to do with the solitude I felt in Portugal, of not being challenged by other researchers. You know, in Heidelberg, there was a community of group leaders, several scientists, each of them working on their own projects, each of them with its own group, but they all talked to each other and exchanged ideas. I was very lonely here. It was just me and one or two other people. That's when I started to think about creating the iMM. I embraced the challenge, because I needed the company and to have other scientists to whom I could talk.
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How do you go from a simple idea to actually creating a strong science hub, which is currently one of the most renowned ones in the country?
[Pauses to think] I just had to do things the right way, because I had the experience on how to create an institute, thanks to my experience at the EMBL - European Molecular Biology Laboratory (equivalent to the European Parliament of Science). When I left, I was nominated by the Portuguese Government as a Portuguese representative in that European structure. I came back from the Council in 1993 and over the following 10 years I was invited to the meetings, where they discussed science policy and the way that European laboratory worked. That's where I learned about strategy and how to start a Science centre. What I did, at the time, was take advantage of the guidance and knowledge that I had acquired, ask for a lot of advice, ask for mentors on science policy whose advice was absolutely essential and who helped me to create the iMM together with Professor João Lobo Antunes and this is the result of that.
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How many researchers are working here at the moment?
Approximately 600 researchers are working at the iMM at the moment. There are 37 independent groups.
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If we want to talk about the iMM, we must talk about João Lobo Antunes. I've heard his emotional speech, when they gave his name to the Great Auditorium. He said that "everybody has something bad to say, they criticise, but no one does it differently". Is it a matter of culture?
No, I don't think so. I have some experience dealing with many countries and here I believe we have a number of obstacles that restrain us, that's a fact, but the truth is that there are obstacles in other countries, as well, even though, they are different from the ones we have to face here. It's more a question of human nature. You need to be persistent and take on a lot of "no's" and many negative replies and you sometimes think that it is better to just give up, because it is easier that way. You need to be really persistent and really want it. Things have to make a lot of sense to us.
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Was the perseverance shared by both of you?
Exactly. We complemented each other a lot. There is a certain type of social influence that Professor João Lobo Antunes had and that I could not have in any way. On the other hand, I had a greater operational ability, the ability to put the pieces together on a daily basis. But I believe that this alliance was perfect. At the iMM, we have implemented, from the beginning, a structure that included the Executive Board, which was more involved in the strategic and scientific decisions, and the President, who was responsible for the institutional relations. Since the beginning, I was the Executive Director and Professor Lobo Antunes was the President. The Professor could have continued to perform his duties as President after his retirement, we talked a lot about it, but he thought that the test, the following challenge for the iMM was to be able to exist without João Lobo Antunes and Carmo. It was better to make the test while we were still here and while we could be able to step in the event of any catastrophe. He stepped down as President, and I took on that position and abandoned the position of Executive Director. I was stuck in old habits, I had created the iMM at an early stage, but by 2014 the iMM was already a "teenager", and you can't deal with a teenager the same way you deal with a child, a baby. I was too engaged with the strategy I had used to make a turn at this point. On the other hand, I was also more tired, because our capacity to hear so many "no's" every day and fight back again the next day begins to deteriorate. There was the need for a new Executive Board with new ideas.
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That's a selfless act. If it were a matter of ego, you would not let go of your thing...
I do not consider it a selfless act, because I've witnessed all the challenges that we had to overcome regarding the iMM, I've seen it go through all the stages.
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We have already talked about perseverance, but resilience defines you, not only as a scientist, but also as a sportswoman. You suffered a huge fall when you were 20 years old that could have been fatal. Nevertheless, after that, you continued to find a place for sports in your life. Is testing your limits a way of proving something to yourself?
No, I didn't have to prove anything to myself. It was merely a question of passion. The reward I get from my professional investment is the same I get when I am trying to do better at a sport and I am always trying to do better. Nowadays, swimming is my sport of choice, I do open water swimming races [Laughs and says this is first-hand information]. I do distance swimming, but it always takes me too long, because I am not a very good swimmer, so it takes me a long time to get to the finish line [Laughs a lot]. I have to be able to do it. I have to practice harder to swim better.
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Yes, no doubt... It has nothing to do with envy. Looking up to the ones that perform better is an inspiration.
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It also inspires you to work with younger people...
It was no coincidence that when you entered the room, I went to get Bruno [Bruno de Jesus was the researcher with whom she has developed the theory of ageing reversibility and we did a joint interview]. I wanted you to meet him.
When you are young, you hit the peak of your creativity. It is scientifically proven that our brain loses creativity and settles. I feel that every time I have a new task to solve. It becomes harder as time goes by. I lose the flexibility of what's new, it is easier to do things by repetition. A simple task such as updating our computer, we had a routine to click a certain button, but it isn't that button any more. Arrrghhh [laughs]
As scientists gets older, they start playing more the role of mentors and less the role of players. And I am happy to be mentoring right now. I want to give younger people what was given to me when I came to the Faculty and they let me get into the laboratory and experiment. I want to broaden the range of opportunities for younger people
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Has the idea of winning a Nobel Prize ever crossed your mind?
No, but look, winning a Nobel Prize is a form of recognition that any scientist who makes a discovery that revolutionises the evolution of knowledge dreams of. However, to become a successful scientist, you do not need a revolutionary discovery, you just have to make any kind of contribution to the evolution of Science and I feel that I have accomplished so much as a scientist. Our routines and the small achievements are already worthwhile. More than any scientific discovery I have ever made, those are my own rewards. To me, the iMM is the biggest scientific reward, it has changed the scientific skills of some many people. I have expanded the impact, my legacy is already here, it's the iMM. It makes me feel good to leave this legacy. The iMM, in Portugal, makes a lot more difference than an iMM in Germany or England, because there wasn't anything like it. It was the first one of its kind. If it weren't for the iMM, most of these researchers who are here today and who came and returned from foreign countries, would not have come.
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You said and I quote: "One day, I would like to speak in front of an audience whose eyes would sparkle as mine once did". And that has already happened...
What makes me love to speak to an audience is the emotional connection that I am able to establish with it. I've been in audiences myself and I remember listening to someone and thinking "wow, that's exactly it". Being able to get the same reaction from others when I speak, make people think differently, that is what I try to do.
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Is that what impresses your students?
The students enjoy the classes because they feel that.
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But they also love the fact that you are strict and demanding.
I have to be, otherwise they would not achieve their goals. Our goal cannot be to amuse students and put them in a good mood. The role of a teacher is not to entertain students for an hour, it is a lot more than that.
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Are your parents still with you?
They are very old, but, yes, they are still with me.
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Your mother was a primary school teacher, who gave up her career to take care of you, her only child. The same mother who did not visit you at the hospital when you had that huge fall. Did that hurt you?
Yes, it hurt me a lot. But she was right, because what she meant to say was "you do not have the right to walk out of my life." My mother still talks about that scary moment to this day, but now the tables have turned and I am the one taking care of her... When I get to my mother's age, I won't have a child to help or take care of me.
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How does such an active woman like yourself look forward and see her own pace decrease?
I look at it with the rigour and discipline I need to leave everything well prepared, because no one will prepare things for me. So, I have to be ready for the progressive loss of autonomy and independence that will come; sooner or later, but it will come. I want to get to the new and more dependent stage of my life and have everything organized and I want to be the one responsible for that organization.
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Is solitude a scary thing?
Yes, because living for Science and being a teacher means being surrounded by people. I like being alone when I am developing some kind of work, but then I have to show that work to others and that is one of the positive aspects. When I turn 70 and I have to retire, I will still have a lot to do. I can take part in many advisory committees, connected to the organization of Science, I can be an advisor. I am already inspired by people who are already retired and still perform those activities.
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As the interview came to an end, it was impossible not to think that there was a lot more to say. That is what happens when we talk about the life of someone like Professor Maria do Carmo. I did not tell her that I have a daughter called Maria do Carmo and that she will study the Portuguese discoveries, just like I did. And when that time comes, maybe they will talk about this brave new group of explorers. Every ship has a captain, with or without a Nobel Prize, and maybe the captain of the Portuguese ship of Science is Maria do Carmo Fonseca. Who knows?
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![](http://news.medicina.ulisboa.pt/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Carmo1.jpg)
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Joana Sousa
Editorial Team
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